Welp, I wrote a post this morning about the Oklahoma State Depth Chart show and we all lost our collective minds in the comments section so I figured it deserved a follow-up.
As a qualifier I should should preface this by saying that I have no opinion one way or another about whether or not coaches should use the f-word (or any other word) when they are dealing with their teams.
There are great coaches who do it (Nick Saban) and great coaches who don’t (Tony Dungy) and I don’t think it has any bearing on the ability of one to coax what he wants out of his players and win games.
That being said, I had a problem with Todd Monken’s string of profanity-laced tirades on the OSU Depth Chart show last night for two reasons:
1. It takes away from the fact that we should be talking about how crazy it is that Oklahoma State was the feature program on a show that was made to highlight some of the best players and facilities in the nation. Two of my sixteen points this morning were about Monken’s language and yet 90% of the comments were about those two points.
His f-bombs were most sensational thing about the show and I felt like that really took away what was a completely positive hour-long spotlight from the mothership.
2. You might not have a problem with it and I might not have a problem with it, but last time I checked our opinions about how a coach goes about his business aren’t real instrumental in bringing in players and winning ball games for OSU.
The opinions of parents of 5-star quarterbacks across the nation, however, are. And whether or not it goes on at every school in the country (which it does) is irrelavent because “every school in the country” wasn’t featured on the first episode of “Depth Chart.” OSU was.
Like it or not but half of recruiting is about keeping up appearances and if you think CJ Curry‘s parents and Wes Lunt‘s parents and Kendall Sanders’ parents watched that last night and thought “oh wow, I cannot wait for my child to go play for that guy”…well…I think that’s a pretty naive thought.
Sure, that’s his personality and that’s how he acts and that’s totally fine. Again, I’m not attacking the way he coaches or lives his life. But the fact that you can’t clean it up for a few weeks for a TV show you know hundreds of recruits (and their parents) are going to watch, and present your organization in a more classy manner shows me that you’re as much of a kid as the 19-year olds you’re teaching.
Kendall Sanders posted on his facebook last night how fired up he was to play for OSU after watching this.
There you go. That’s why I get paid a few bucks a month to run a blog and Gundy gets a few mil a year to run a football program.
Heard a RA comment yesterday in advance of show. He was comparing Dana Holgerson’s vocabulary to Todd Monken’s. He said Dana actually cusses a lot more and a lot more imaginative use of 4 letter words. However, the big difference between the two is, Dana cleans up the mouth for the cameras. With Todd you saw him exactly the way he is, cameras or not.
As a former college athlete I related to Monken and now I am officially on his tip. With that being said would I want my son playing for him? Heck yes. My daughter? probably not but her chances of playing D1 football are not very high.
You may have just dug your hole a bit deeper with this follow up post…
At the end of the day there is not one team in the country who doesn’t have at least one Monken on their staff. It will fire most kids up, and will piss some parents off. It wasn’t completely appropriate for National TV, but neither is a lot of other things that go on in and around college football. It is what it is, and nothing more. Why is is this such a topic??
I make a motion that you post your next 10 bonus thoughts before 1 pm EST to get the crowd settled a bit…
Hard knocks. My man crush on Tod is up there with Joey graham.
Fyi: Todd’s gross slick hair > Dana weird wild hair.
I don’t think you are completely off on this. In the long run, I don’t think it will make a huge difference, but I understand where you are coming from and I think you make a valid point concerning the parents of potential recruits. I think there is value in putting a good face on the university.
I didn’t mind the cussing from TM, but it did seem that they strung a bunch of the tape together to make it sound like every other word was a cuss word. I am sure out of the whole tape it is more sporadic and not as condensed.
I like him more now since seeing the program though and cuss away if you keep winning ball games.
Listen, football is a game played with an immense amount of pressure. If that pressure is not applied in practice, etc. then it aint gonna happen out there in front of 60,000 people. I appreciate his intensity. Did you see Josh Heupel on the OU access piece? I do not think many parents would have a problem with the language, and honestly if that scares them away then I’m not sure they are the ones that will take Ostate to the next level.
I call BS on putting a “good face on the university”. Isn’t their value in showing how things work at OSU vs. putting a “spin” on it. If you ever played football at any level (except maybe gradeschool), there’s cussing and f-bombs going on. For me that was 25 years ago.
I respect the fact that if I were a recruit, I got to see how it really is vs. signing on and being surprised once you arrive on campus.
I think it was good to keep it as “real” as possible. Although, a few things seemed scripted (i.e. Bad Brad’s, Weeden/wife).
You obviously haven’t been around college sports very long or sports in general. If you think think Monken is different than any other assistant coach in America, you’re kidding yourself. Go to any big time program in the country… You think you’re not going to hear that?! Get real and get off your “moral high horse.” And he never used profanity AT player like, “you’re f***ing idiot.” He used profanity AROUND them. Hell, even Weeden was caught dropping some F bombs.
Also, do you think high school players don’t hear profanity from their coaches NOW? To even remotely think that his profanity would affect a player’s decision to come here is ridiculous. You are so far off on this it’s laughable…
See above: “And whether or not it goes on at every school in the country (which it does) is irrelavent because “every school in the country” wasn’t featured on the first episode of “Depth Chart.” OSU was.”
Haha! You can tell someone already their mind made up before they read your follow up.
I have not seen it yet (thank you very much Canadian “TSN”), but I am not shocked that a coach dropped the F-bomb on several occasions. Do I care? No. Does it look great on national tv? Probably not. If it offends anyone that watched, I recommend CHILLING OUT, and don’t let a word bother you. My, some people are touchy! ha!
I really don’t think parents care. Most let their kid choose where they want to play and the fact that OSU was featured on depth chart only helps. Parents know that “that’s just football” and that a coaches language is of little relevance. I’m sure coaches were profane around Tebow at Florida and it didn’t affect him negatively. I think we are shining too big a spotlight on a very minor part of the program and football in general.
Hey Kyle, one other quick thing. It’s cool you post stuff that not everyone agrees with. I think most folks respect what you say regardless of whether they agree with you or not.
Keep up the great work on this blog!
Now back to the gnashing of teeth……
Appreciate that, Smitty and hope everyone agrees with you. It’s okay for us to not see eye-to-eye on everything as long as people are keeping their arguments and chatter intelligent and relevant.
and don’t forget about the discussions being fun! I think most people are having fun with this topic because, well, when’s the last time we all got into a discussion with a bunch of people caring about the team and getting worked up about naughty words.
It’s a lot more fun to chat about this than other stuff going on in the world!
Haha for sure.
I’ll second this
You’re implying that recruits are ignorant and/or naive in thinking that doesn’t go on at any other school. They’re not stupid. And like I said, they probably already hear that from their high school coaches…
We’re sitting here, and I’m supposed to be the franchise coordinator, and we’re talking about language. I mean listen, we’re sitting here talking about language, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we’re talking about language. Not the game that I go out there and die for and coach every game like it’s my last, but we’re talking about language man. How silly is that?”
And we talking about language. I know I supposed to be there. I know I’m supposed to lead by example… I know that… And I’m not… I’m not shoving it aside, you know, like it don’t mean anything. I know it’s important, I do. I honestly do…
But we’re talking about language man. What are we talking about? Language? We’re talking about language, man. We’re talking about language. We’re talking about language. We aint talking about the game. We’re talking about language, man. When you come to the stadium, and you see me coach, you see me coach don’t you? You’ve seen me give everything I’ve got, right? But we’re talking about language right now.
+1
i agree with Smitty. one of the best lines in the piece is when Clint says Monken’s “vocabulary is very diverse.”
Sweet Jesus in Heaven. I just wish people would actually read the posts before commenting. You didn’t personally assault Monken. You didn’t say he should be fired or have his jaw wired shut. You didn’t say that he’s going to hell for cussing. You didn’t ignore the fact that most of America over the age of 15 cusses.
The point is perception.
Eff my life.
Had this EXACT same thought as I read through the comments. The point is about the recruits’ PARENTS’ perception, not the recruits themselves. Gees people are annoying. Read the freaking post and make your comments based on what was actually written.
Kyle, I agree you with 110%!
You’re just pointing out that this WAS a national showcase for OSU and our program. Given that, I would have wanted myself and my program to be presented in the best possible light. Excessive cursing doesn’t necessarily do that. It doesn’t matter if they ALL do it. You’ll never hear Burns Hargis use those words. Is there a difference? If so, should there be?
There is a difference because Burns is shaking hands with suits and kissing babies all day while Monken is trying to win a national title in a violent sport.
Again (and I think you understand this, Patty) I’m not saying Monken shouldn’t curse, just that it’s not the best depiction on national television of a program Gundy is always saying “needs to teach kids how to be men”
Yep!!
I think it’s admirable that he didn’t fake clean language for the sake of TV. He was being himself and if it hurts recruiting bc the parents don’t like Monkens filthy mouth, then so be it. At least those parents see what exactly their kids will be dealing with and no surprises when they get on campus. But for reals though…really guys….really…I don’t think he will be remembered as St. Monken.
If a kid or parent is going to be offended by that, better that they get offended now rather than basing their opinions of a school off of a false image presented. I would rather a kid turn us down now then to get to campus and realize things arent what they seemed and go home at that point. Did his language portray the best image of OSU possible? Nope. However, if parents or kids are so sheltered it bothers them they better start preparing for a lot worse when they leave high school.
This is actually a pretty good point. Good job, Wolf.
Do people really take note of cussing that much? Hell, I’ve heard catholic priests running grade schools cuss more. Who cares?
Again, I haven’t watched this yet, but I think a key factor is whether or not the language was abusive (it doesn’t sound like it was).
As we can see from Mangino and (what we thought of) Leach, parents, rightly or wrongly, are very sensitive to how they think their children will be treated. Dropping f-bombs probably won’t bother them. Calling a player a #@%! idiot is a different matter entirely – I forget exactly what Travis Ford said, but I thought that would deserve more heat than a bunch of bleeps during an ESPN special. Again, from what I’ve heard it doesn’t sound like Monk did that.
@pistolsguy How would you like to spend a night in Vegas with Dana and Todd? Me thinks if all the PFB readers chip in $5 we could send you out there to celebrate after our win in New Orleans… Then you could write about language
OMG do contributors get to go???
Pistols, I agree that your opinions are great whether the reader agrees or not. It’s good discussion.
“…I don’t think it has any bearing on the ability of one to coax what he wants out of his players and win games…”
I disagree that TM would be as successful changing who he is as a coach. The same way I don’t think Dungy would be as good acting like TM. You have to be who you are or people see through it and will make you less succssful.
The reason it was talked about by 90% of the responses was because it was a negative opinion of an otherwise great forum for our university. The negative attention give to the situation makes it something to talk about. People wouldn’t discuss and debate as much on positive items. So, by bringing it up as an negative it fueled the fire so to speak.
On the other point, it is difficult at times knowing what goes through the minds of other including parents and prospective students. Many parents could have viewed Monken as a great football mind that cares about his players (example being JW’s rag arm) and wouldn’t blink an eye at his language. Different people think differently. Plus the recruits should be making these decisions not the parents.
I would have preferred Monken tone down the language, probably just for the sake of the image is portrayed on OSU, but he was just being himself so I can’t fault him for that.
As for future recruits, it he is a player with great potential and rated as a 5 or 4 or whatever star, I have to believe he did not get that way without some serious motivational speeches from coaches and parents in his life. I would find it hard to believe those speeches were given with sweet tenderness and dainty use of the English language. I would like to know what J.W.’s dad was saying to him in the still picture that was shown of the two when J.W. was still in high school. I’m sure it was quite persuasive and not something I would want my daughter to hear.
All that said, I have not heard much at all said on the Kansas City sports radio shows about any of the language used or even the show in general. I think it may just be all of us OSU fans cringing at the thought something negative would come from this great production that showed the true character of this team and the spirit of OSU and the state of Oklahoma in general.
Go Pokes!
Beat texas!!!
“…shows me that you’re as much of a kid as the 19-year olds you’re teaching.”
That quote IS a personal attack on TM, and the only line I have disagreed with today.
Yep, you’re absolutely right, I was waiting for someone to bring that up. I regret writing that one because it went from objective, objective, objective to subjective assassination of his personal beliefs. My fault.
I’m glad Monken didn’t feel the need to “edit” himself. I would rather him be himself all the time, cameras or not. If any future recruiting commits have a problem with it then they can see up front and decide to go elsewhere (where they will also be berated, haha). I don’t want someone who is going to get their feelings hurt by profane language on the team(boo hoo, mommy someone said not nice things to me, seriously are we talking about a 3rd grade football team?!?!) If i was a recruit I would love Monken’s attitude and I wouldn’t let my mommy’s feelings get in the way either.
“Every school in the country wasn’t featured on the first episode of depth chart. OSU was.” Auburn was actually the first on, they were on last week.
Love the discussion.
One quick point that I think needs to be discussed but isn’t is the fact that ESPN is partly to blame in the perception of TM from the show. They had the luxury of being able to edit the countless time of film and narrow it down to what we saw on the show. A little bit of creative editing for the purposes of entertainment and you got the show we had last night. If you didn’t care about OSU like most of us commenting here, you would be entertained by the colorful language of Monken.
They have to do something to appeal to the broader national base, draw buzz, and sell add revenue.
Anyway, just throwing this out there because no one is holding ESPN accountable for how it got presented.
Overall, great show imo.
I think the only thing I disagree with is that I dont feel that cussing on national tv is a “negative image” of OSU. Yeah it’s cursing, but it was a documentary on summer football practice. It wasn’t a press conference. I watched it and I laughed at how much he cussed and also got really pumped up that he is our coach. I’m not speaking on anyone’s behalf or thinking what a parent of a recruit might be thinking, but I just feel that seeing him cuss was not a negative image of OSU. It was real.
Can’t get behind you on this. I don’t want any player that can’t get down with the Monken Swag.
“They have one player that can play in the NFL and he’s in the right corner. We have the best receiver in the country, so f— him.”
Line of the century. Monken Swag.
And as Jime Rome would say…man’s game!
I listened to the daily “Bedlam Radio Show” in Tulsa where Go Pokes! reporter Robert Allen is the regular guest speaker. He said that Dana Holgorsen actually uses profanity much more frequently than Todd Monken does. The difference is that Holgorsen cleans it up when he knows there are television cameras nearby whereas Coach Monken is “what you see is what you get” regardless of who is watching.
I gotta admit, language aside, I’ve come to believe that Coach Gundy was right about Monken – he really has a sharp football mind.
Look, it’s reality. I appreciate someone for being honest, and Monken was. Why fake something for cameras and a TV show?
Unfortunately we live (and they coach) in a very conservative area (the bible belt), and people are concerned with these things. The fact is it such an issue is silly. This show on ESPN should be a celebration of OSU’s rise in athletics and not an attack on one of the best O-Coordinators for one of the best teams in the nation.
I understand that people want Monken to clean up his language for a couple weeks while ESPN taped would be a good idea for recuiting. However, what happens when parents or players see this cleaned up version of Monken and are surprised and confused when they do show up to OSU. Monken is now a cussing fool. He would be misrepresented and kids are going to get one heck of a surprise. Staying true to himself may have helped him and OSU in the long run.
I still haven’t gotten to see the show (I generally don’t miss not having cable except for something like this being on) so I don’t have my own opinion about the language. I suspect it wouldn’t bother me, but I’m not like most other parents (my daughter’s third word was “sh*t”, oops)
We live in Iowa now so not a lot of OSU fans around here to talk about this with. However, today a buddy of mine (Iowa State fan) was over and asked me if I had seen this show. When I told him I hadn’t, the only comment he had was about Monken’s language and how he thought it would turn off a lot of parents from letting their kid go to OSU. Obviously this is only anecdotal evidence, and a very small sample size, but it confirms exactly both of your points in this post Kyle.
I know I’m late to the party but I just found this blog (love it by the way) but I thought I would offer a couple of thoughts. First, I do not believe parents will be turned off of OSU because of the language because Monken still comes across as caring for the players which is the number one concern for parents. Second, the salty language contributed to my favorite line from the show which was the pregame talk in which Monken tells the offense that ULaLa believes they have an NFL calliber right corner and “we have the best receiver in the country, so {censored} ‘em.” That was great.
I agree it is a shame that the language stole some headlines from the show but my question is if you are a parent of a blue chip recruit, would you rather have a coach who curses but takes cares of your child (even invites them to his house for bbq) or one who says the right things on tv but treats your child like garbage?